finding an authentic moment:
an interview with zachary paugh

interviewed by addie tsai

Addie Tsai: Can you tell me your backstory? 

Zach Paugh: I was born in Edwards Air Force Base, California. My parents moved out to Phoenix, Arizona shortly after I was born, where I was raised for the majority of my life. I grew up in a rural community where I went to middle school and high school, in a place called Rainbow Valley, which was phenomenal. If Goodyear’s here, the farther you go up into the mountains, it’s tucked away surrounded by mountains. It’s very wild. My high school was a thousand, a couple thousand people? It was enough that you knew everyone, and everyone knew you. 

AT: That was like my class. My class was 1100 people.

ZP: You were like, hi! We know what’s happening. After high school, I went out to Otterbein University in Westerville, Ohio, which was a private liberal arts college, and that was really exciting. I loved the campus. I loved the change of scenery. That was my big thing. I’ve been in the desert for so long. I want to see what else is out there! So then I go to a rural community in Ohio. [They laugh.] Which was actually very exciting because they were one of the first colleges to have the women, gender, and sexuality studies course. I had my feminism in film class. There was gender and sexuality studies. So it was really like, oh this is cool! All of us discovering it together while being in this rural, Westerville, Ohio, antique shop place. So it was really fantastic. After that, I had an internship with Cirque du Soleil in Las Vegas.

AT: How did all of that happen? How did you even get to Cirque du Soleil? When did you start thinking about clothes and costumes?

ZP: Clothes and costumes have been a huge thing for my entire life. My mom was always very welcoming when it came to my personal sense of style, and she would always encourage me. I would take bedsheets and drape them around myself and pretend to be a Disney princess, or pretend to be Michelle Yeoh in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon [AT: Oh my god, YES!] and leaping from couch to couch. The imagery and the costumes were so elaborate. My first big aha moment was when I saw Queen Amidala in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace in theaters. It was just the visual of her coming up. Who is this person that is taking a stand for her planet and is going back to fight for everyone?! The government is against her: I mean, we’ll help you in time. And she’s like, No, I’m gonna go by myself and I’m gonna use my friends that I know and we’re gonna take my planet back. That was such a big YES, and she did it fabulously dressed. She’s running around in this velvet skirt and these high boots and this giant ponytail and I was like, This is fantastic. Ever since then, I was like, what is a costume? I was a big wig collector for a time, and when I was starting a costume box, if you will, in high school and middle school, my dad built me these shelves in my room so that I could put my wigs on Styrofoam heads on them. 

I made my first costume my senior year of high school for Pirates of Penzance. Leading up to that, I would make small things. Of course, draping a blanket around myself. Taking pieces from thrift stores and combining them together. Nothing really too extravagant. It wasn’t until college when I started to actually make costumes and work in a costume shop, and know what it’s like to work with a sewing machine and then kind of be like, Oh, I can make my own stuff?! What’s going on here?

I always felt I had a voice to express myself. Even in high school, even though it was a rural community, I was very much wearing what I wanted to wear. I had my faux fur vest from Charlotte Russe, I had my size 00 skinny jeans, my black tank top. My parents were always very accepting. 

AT: What’s their background?

ZP: My mom was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. My dad was born in rural West Virginia. My mom’s family is massive. She has three sisters and a brother, and our entire family migrated from the Philippines to Hawaii in 1920 to be sugarcane farmers. So it was kind of interesting when my cousins looked into that. Where did we come from? We found pictures of the boat that we came on. We found our old addresses and things like that, so that was kind of cool.

AT: Is your dad also from the Philippines? 

ZP: My dad is from Poland? That’s where Ancestry.com said that we’re from. We get some Polish and some Irish in there. 

AT: Did performing ever become part of your costuming world? Or were you coming at it solely from a designer standpoint?

ZP: It was performing. That was the big thing.

AT: It was theater, dance?

ZP: Theater and dance combination. In high school I would play in a lot of our school productions. I would dance in the dance concerts, and then when I got to college is when I was encouraged to look at costuming and everything because I auditioned for the musical theater program at Otterbein. Unfortunately, I didn’t make it in, but they were like, We still like you. / Okay! So, once I followed that costume route. I was like, I could audition for shows, but what else is out there? And then it was, Come and do the Otterdrag show! I auditioned, and I got in. It was just the creative outlet through my four years doing drag and performing and being a part of that community while still focusing on the design aspect and leading up to designing my own show senior year. I was doing both things and then being able to work on projects in the costume shop and stay there late, and then work on a drag show piece and perform it the next day and go back. It was very organic and fluid and very expressive during that time. It was a lot of fun. I was auditioning for a couple of pieces in Columbus, Ohio. Doing Nina West’s So You Think You Can Drag. I remember doing that my junior year of college. I remember, she was very big in Columbus at the time. She was doing things with the Columbus Zoo. She was not just starting, but to the point of when I talked to people, Oh, Nina West, she’s our Columbus drag queen. / Oh, dope, okay. I remember she was also very supportive. I came in second place for her competition, and she said, Okay, how often do you want to work? We can start booking you at other places. I said, I really want to just kind of focus on my schoolwork. I was working two jobs at the time. I was like, I’m really not looking for drag to be my sole thing. There are people I competed against that this was their life, this was their expression, this was what they wanted to do. They should have the space. I just want to come in and dance every once in a while. So that was really fun. I did a few things here and there at the local bars in Columbus during that time. Fashion has always been something I’ve looked at as a source of inspiration. I like this silhouette, what can I make it out of? One of my favorite fashion designers is Jean Paul Gaultier. And when he designed The Fifth Element. What are these costumes! It was amazing.

AT: At a time that nobody was thinking about costuming, I think, in film in the way he was. 

ZP: Yeah! 

AT: Okay, tell me now, how did you get the job at Cirque de Soleil? How did all that happen?

ZP: So, my senior year, I went to an event called USITT (the United States Institute for Theatre Technology) and that was held in Fort Worth, Texas. I had just applied to be at the The Glimmerglass Festival, with one of my friends who had been there the summer previously. Didn’t make it in. I was kind of going in, where am I going? Is it Disney? Disney was there. There were opportunities to pursue a graduate degree in costume design. I was like, Do I really want to do that? Is that where I want to go? So I was walking around the convention space, just looking and talking to people. I went back to the Cirque booth because the previous year I went, I kind of had a weird experience. I didn’t feel prepared when I first chatted with them my junior year. I didn’t feel like I was coming with the right questions. I didn’t feel my portfolio was where I wanted it to be. And so, flash forward to senior year, Fort Worth. I was with my friends. I went to the Cirque du Soleil booth and I just started asking questions. What’s the company like? How inclusive is it? Are there artists from all over? Just general questions. How is the costume shop run? I was chatting with the costume shop manager of La Nouba at Disney World. I remember she was so welcoming and very open to my questions. I showed her my portfolio. I said, I don’t really know what I’m gonna show you, but can you just look at my portfolio and we can talk about it? [She said,] Sure, why not? Okay, this is cool! Going through it, I showed her my senior year design show, which was Sweet Charity. The whole thing was about finding the inner light and having the audience relate to Sweet Charity in a way they hadn’t before. To separate the two perspectives, I bought vintage for everyone in the background, and as we got closer to Charity, all the characters started to blur the lines towards more modern. So when she came into the forefront, Charity was in this dress we found at Macy’s. I wanted something super relatable but that referenced the 1960s. She was like, That’s really cool you bought vintage. We’re all about reusable and recycling things. Yes, exactly! So then we moved onto my drag outfits and we were chatting about how I used zip ties as boning because we didn’t have access to spiral boning and how I was utilizing all the fabric from Goodwill that I had bought in this Goodwill center in California where you can buy things by the pound and this curtain I found I always wanted to reuse because: reuse things! Reuse and recycle. She was like, This is great. We always think about ways to do things. I’m actually vibing with this Cirque du Soleil employee. She said, Go ahead and apply and this is what our internship looks like. I don’t know, because we work with designers all around the world, you’d be more of like a technician where you learn how to make things and you shadow a show. I think your views and methods align with Cirque’s and how we think about the costume and how we think about preservation and how we think about lifespan and materials, and I think you’d be a good fit. Okay! So I applied and I had my interview with the costume shop manager of Zarkana. His name is RuBen Permel. He opened the interview with, So, I saw your resume and I wasn’t quite sure about it so I put it in the pile. I was running into a lot of people who were lighting designers who wanted to try an internship and all this stuff. And then I was like, no. So I thought about you and then I picked your resume back up so tell me about yourself. I was like, Oh my god! Ah uh hum, so I … not scary at all!

AT: That’s such a weird opening.

ZP: I know! I was like, okay, so, I gotta fight for this! I gotta prove that I’m here, and I’m not a lighting technician. I’m actually interested in costume. I want to be a costume designer for film. I said, I don’t know quite what my journey is, but I was inspired by the costumes from Star Wars. I was inspired by Jean-Paul Gaultier from The Fifth Element. By taking an internship with Cirque, or being able to explore what a costume shop at this level does with costumes, I will be better able to work as a costume designer with the team and understand the job that they do to create the things I draw. I remember we were on a Zoom meeting, and he was like, Okay. That’s cool. Ugh! Sweating through my three-piece suit.

AT: What’s your sun sign?

ZP: September 18, so I’m a Virgo. 

AT: Virgo! I’m also a Virgo!

ZP: Yes, Virgos! I honestly did not think I got it after that conversation. Oh, I blew it! So, I waited a couple of weeks? I got the call from Cirque Headquarters, from Lisa. She said, So, you had your interview with RuBen. How’d you think it went? / I think it was fine? I think it was okay. She was like, Well, I want to let you know that you got the internship. I was like, Oh my god! She said, So it’s gonna be a late summer internship, so you’re gonna start in August. You will work until November, and you’ll be at Zarkana at the Aria and here’s, I’ll send you the information, congratulations, and all this stuff. I remember, as soon as we hung up the phone, I stood up in my little dorm room, and I was like, Oh my god, I got it! Totally cloud nine. Cirque du Soleil was my last option for myself. Because other than that I had no idea where else I was going to go. There was something about going back to the West and going back to the drier climate that felt like home for me. Because I was raised in Phoenix. Nevada, it’s the same climate. Let me go back that way. It’s closer to California where my family’s at. That was exciting. It was an awesome moment. So I had about two months after I graduated just to chill out in Columbus. I got a job at David’s Bridal doing alterations for the summer and at the time I was also working at White House Black Market as a personal stylist. I love, love, love all White House Black Market items. Oh my gosh. I would buy their cardigans. I love dressing people. I guess that’s the other side of the fashion part was while making costumes during the day and understanding designer motivation and attention and then doing drag where I could make whatever I wanted to and tell the stories I wanted to tell and be as goofy as I wanted to on stage, I then had my other outlet at White House Black Market to dress people and to have a client come in, tell me what they’re thinking, what their favorite colors were, the silhouette they’re going for, and be like, we have these collections in the store. How can I figure out your energy and how can I dress your energy to elevate you and to get you to where you want to be for your event? That was my whole outlook. It was fun because in that way I was doing three different things all revolving around fashion and costume. For me, fashion and costume are almost synonymous. It’s just all manner of dress. I think costume is more like a theater term and fashion is more of an everyday term, but to me, it’s the same. The way you dress is the way you dress. It's all about self-expression and identity. You could tell everything about someone by what they choose to put on in the morning and I believe that because that’s what I would do in middle school. That's what I would do in high school. Every morning I would say: what’s the story I want to tell today? Theme days were my favorite because I was aligning with people. I found that through my expression in middle school and high school, I could code to the norms or go outside of the norms? Or queer code.

AT: I was going to tell you something also. A while back I taught a fashion-themed composition class. Just English Composition. There is this really great book called Fashion and Communication. Written by Malcolm Barnard, this British fashion scholar guy. But he talks about how even the people who think they don’t have a relationship to fashion have a relationship to fashion but that those that identify with it are people who both want to be individual but also want to feel that they’re part of the community. I feel that’s similar to what you’re saying here. Aligning with people but wanting to tell your own story at the same time. [ZP: Yes! I love that.]

What was a day like for you at Cirque? Or a range of days?

ZP: I was hired on specifically as a Crafts and Shoes intern. I wasn’t a wardrobe intern, per se, I was more focused on the creating of the shoes, the upkeep of the shoes, working on headpieces a little bit, and a typical day would be—once the internship was going, I would get there around 9 or so and then I would go straight to work with Paul Franklin and Kim Reale who were two of my most favorite mentors that I had at Cirque because they were quirky storytellers who were so open and both very artistic. Paul Franklin was a dancer in Vegas for the longest time and he danced in one of the longest running Las Vegas showgirl performances on the strip. He would tell his dancer stories. This blew my mind! I think he also danced in New York for a time, but amazing, amazing. Kim is an artist painter who used to be an ice skating rink showgirl. She would do ice shows and dance the lead and ice skate when the venues had ice shows. She had been all over to Broadway. She did the touring circuit and then she ended up in Las Vegas. And both of them were in this shoe shop painting shoes for Cirque, having the time of their life.

AT: How did they end up there? After performing?

ZP: I honestly couldn’t tell you and I would love to rehash those stories with them.

AT: That’s wild!

ZP: That’s how Cirque is, though. A lot of them are ex-performers or they’ve been on tour for a long time and somehow ended up—one of my bosses, she used to be a television show hostess or an actress, and then RuBen, my boss, used to work on Miss Saigon, and it’s all these fabulous stories with fabulous people. And they’re all arts related. They all know someone who knows someone who did the costumes on the Phantom. Who did the costumes on The Lion King. It was just amazing. One of my coworkers, Maria, was on the technician crew who painted the dinosaurs for Jurassic Park and she had a picture of her inside the dead, or the dying, rhinoceros. She painted it! 

AT: Okay, so I had a question. What was your relationship to shoes and accessories before you got to Cirque, as a designer?

ZP: Nothing. I’d paint shoes occasionally for my drag outfits. Accessories and shoes was all I would do at White House Black Market. It would be pulling a jewelry thing here, pulling shoes there, not actually creating. A typical day—I get to go back to that—at Zarkana. We get there, start in the morning, we’d go through all the dressing rooms and check the artist shoes. Some of them were typical ballet flats, we called them bleyers. We’d check the paint job on those, because from the trapeze artists, they kind of get scuffed up sometimes. They get gummy, we’d have to repaint those. We’d also pull a lot of the main clown shoes. At Zarkana we had this group of ghosts that embodied 1920s/1930s, not stereotypes but icons, so we had a bride that was in a 1920s dress with these really cute shoes. We had a mad scientist. We had a mad scientist assistant. We had this cool jester character. We had this cool clown character. All of their shoes were so specific and painted to match their costume. So we’d go through and pull all of them. And then, once we pulled all of them, checked them in, we would just start painting. We played Diana Ross, we played Whitney. I had a CD from my cousin from his DJ days in San Francisco that I would play. It was just this amazing environment. We would just paint. We would airbrush. We would first rub the shoes off with alcohol to remove any of the scuffing. And then we would airbrush the bottoms, airbrush the tops. We would hand paint some of the details back in. We would do this every single day. We would have to get it done by 3 or 4, before the artists came in and started training. It was a quick turnaround. I learned very quickly the art of doing a fast, good job when it comes to painting. It was a look into the importance of a good shoe for an artist and that was incredible. It was amazing.

AT: Did you actually learn how to build shoes, too?

ZP: I did. One of my projects was building a shoe from scratch. We used an Asics running shoe as a base—unfortunately they don’t make this brand of shoe anymore—but it’s just a basic tennis shoe. I learned how to mold and wet the leather on top of it and then create a shape and then build upon it to create a specific look and feel. Before I started this, my boss said, You can make whatever you want to. So I came in with a rendering that I had drawn and I came in with this idea of #13—there were 12 ghosts—and if I added this character on the show, what would it look like? I thought about how each character had an individual look and each one represented a different person in this world that we were talking about. So I created a 1920s/1930s football player character, and what their shoe would look like in the circus aspect. I thought about when football players kick the football, what if you had a raised bit that the football would sit in and use it for his act sometime. My boss was like, That’s really cool. I was so excited! That was an amazing project and I built it with Paul’s guidance. I asked Kim for references, and then I airbrushed it and painted it and finished it. One of my favorite projects was making those shoes! Then while that internship was happening I would sometimes fill in and do wardrobe tracks, and so that would involve the nighttime shift more. We would check the costumes in, check the upkeep. Put anything that was washed back into the artist dressing rooms. We’d go to dinner, and come back, and then that’s when we would get our assignments. We’d all sit down at our table. We’d look at the run sheet of the night. Who was at what position. Who was out, who was ill. If anyone was in a different act. If a new act was going in or anything. We’d just get, okay, here’s what’s on your track and you’d go. You pull their costumes, who’s changing where, you’d set everything up. And then the show starts, and you’re just kind of around, getting people dressed.

AT: It's really interesting, too, because if you go in as a costume designer, maybe you don’t know all the aspects of how a show actually gets put together, what people are responsible for what. So I can see how an internship like this can really set you up for any kind of costume design shop. 

ZP: That was the exciting part. I remember when I talked to RuBen about it. He said, Well, shoes? Why you wanna know about shoes? I said exactly what I told you earlier. If I’m a costume designer, I want to be able to at least have some frame of reference when I talk to a shoe person. I kind of want it to look like this, but I want to know if it’s functional and not be a fashion designer who says I need this made and they’re just completely wrong or they don’t fit. I want to be able to have that realistic perspective and be able to talk in a way that is practical, if that makes sense.

AT: It reminds me of those costumes that Bowie would go on stage with and he couldn’t do anything in them. All he can do is just really stand there. He can’t actually move or do anything in them. And then there is always that story—but this is more a makeup thing—the Wicked Witch of the West who got burned from the makeup she wore.

ZP: Yes! Cause of the makeup she wore. And the guy who was the Tin Man who got lead poisoning because of the tin in his makeup? 

[Both laugh.]

AT: That’s some commitment! They weren’t just doing it once, you know what I mean? That’s multiple shoots!

ZP: That’s why I also love Star Wars design.

AT: I wanted to ask you more about that. Are you a Star Wars fan, or of design? Are you both? Is it mostly about the design? I noticed—we’re definitely gonna take pictures of your tattoos and your Star Wars necklace and your Star Wars shirt!

ZP: And my Star Wars backpack! So this is me painting shoes outside. 

AT: Oh my god! Oh wow. This is so cool.

ZP: So we would clear coat them to make sure that the paint, if they got scuffs, you could wash them off the next day. Here’s the base. I was creating the foam tops for the shoes on the base shoe. And then I was adding the leather. 17, number 17. So those are the shoes I made for the show.

AT: Oh my god, that’s amazing.

ZP: They didn’t get put into the show. I want to preface that.

AT: Did you get to keep them?

ZP: I did.

AT: You did! Oh my god!

ZP: I still have them!

AT: That would be so sad if you would have had to leave them there.

ZP: I think they fit me too. They might make an appearance. Cirque was one of those super creative environments where there was everyone represented. An artist from China and Japan, Russia, Ukraine. We had a group of flag guys from Italy that had this beautiful flag act. The cool thing about Cirque is that in each theater they have a flag to represent every performer from their country. And hang them in one of the big community spaces, so it always felt like a good community. Of course, even within communities, there’s drama. But that’s a family.

AT: Was that the first real multicultural community you’d been in?

ZP: Honestly, yes?

AT: I was like, Arizona and Ohio!

ZP: I was doing some deep thinking lately with all the talks about discrimination and especially against the Asian community. My mom was always like, If someone says something bad about you, you don’t talk to them. So, I think that was my perspective. If mean people are mean, it’s because they’re mean and they’re hurting. I never understood the significance of some of the words they would say. It was actually racist or it was actually rooted in some sort of stereotype. It wasn’t actually until two years ago when I began to think about experiences and be like, No, that was actually really incredibly intense. When I was in elementary school, it was mostly everyone was the same color, and I was the only person of color. When it came to middle school and high school is when I found the few other people of color and we all hung out again. It really was just us. I remember the Hispanic community was really big at Rainbow Valley because we were so close to Mexico. I remember having friends who would talk about vacationing in Mexico and going back. But I remember having friends who would talk about going back and then I would never see them again. I remember one, whose name was Jorge, who told me on the playground one day, he was like, I want to let you know that I’m an illegal immigrant and I’m not here legally. To me, I was like, Okay. Not realizing what that meant. I hope you don’t look at me any differently. / You’re still a cool guy. You’re cool to me, so we’re cool. To me, it didn’t even matter. He was looking to reach out and talk about his experiences and I had no idea. It wasn’t until honestly that I got here that I felt the community was at such a level of diversity and I felt it. 

AT: You know we’re number 1? We’re the most diverse city in the country.

ZP: I feel that.

AT: Houston’s not perfect by any means. But, [in terms of diversity] you just don’t have to think about it. Everywhere I go in this city, it’s just not something you notice or not notice. Which I think is very, very unusual for a city in general, but especially for a city in the south. I love Austin. But it’s just very white. So Houston has this really special landscape in that way. 

I still want to ask you about Star Wars. So, Star Wars. Are you a fan, or a fan through design, through costumes?

ZP: Ooh, I’ve never been asked that before. I think I’m honestly a fan through design because I saw the original trilogy on VHS. We had them and my dad loved them. I was like, These are cool films, yeah, I get it. But it wasn’t until that moment when Queen Amidala made her appearance, that I was, like, whaa!, hanging on my seat. It had to do with the design. I remember, there was also some sort of relatability to it, because once I read that Trisha Biggar was referencing Mongolian and Eastern culture, and the Jedi costumes were Japanese inspired and George Lucas got a lot of his references from there, I was like, Oh, this is cool. I was feeling like I was in some way getting a little bit of a voice. This is where I belong. This is where I’m seeing myself. It wasn’t until later that I was like, Oh, wait. It is problematic through the conversations I was having. But still. I still think about that all the time when I read friends of mine in cosplay who are Asian cosplayers, and their experience and being told, Well, you’re Asian so you can’t be Padme.

AT: Almost all the anime characters are [voiced by] white people.

ZP: Yes! It’s very weird, and it’s very disarming to love something so much and to realize the problematic aspects of it, but we have to talk about it. We have to really just have a casual conversation about it.

AT: I have bigger questions, but in a second. Did you go straight from Cirque to Houston? How did that happen?

ZP: I was with Zarkana. I was ending my internship in November. They ended up extending me. My boss was like, One of our wardrobe technicians is leaving to go on tour. I would like to keep you here through December and extend your internship because we really like you. 

AT: They paid you well at Cirque? With internships you always have to wonder if you’re being valued.

ZP: It was a little more than minimum wage. In Vegas at that time, for me, it was enough? I never felt taken advantage of. I was rooming with another intern. It was fun. Cirque did a great job of pairing us off. We would go out, all of us interns. The community aspect was established from the very beginning. My internship was extended. And then, they wanted to keep me. We want you to stay with us as an on call. At that point, I’d really love a full time position. On call. That’s how you gotta start. Gotta start somewhere. I was really fortunate to be an on call who worked a lot so that was nice. And then Zarkana closed. I got the news we were closing in May of 2017, and I remember being like, Okay, where am I gonna go after this? What’s going to happen? That was my first experience of a major show closing because this Zarkana had been there for years and everyone’s just gotta find work elsewhere. It’s very different in theater when you know your show is gonna close. In Vegas, Cirque is such a big presence you don’t think about the longevity of it or when it’s gonna end. That’s when we were all applying for shows on the strips. I had an interview with Kà with Eric Wood and Lisa Chapman. I remember feeling very good about them, I knew a couple of people there already. It was just another welcoming environment. Kà was also inspired by Asian culture. They had a troupe from the Beijing Opera. They did opera sticks. I was like, Oh, this is gorgeous. And feeling that representation. Yeah, I want to be on this show! I got the job there, and that’s when I was like, okay. I closed out my apartment in Ohio. Ended my relationship with my boyfriend. I was like, I’m staying in Vegas. Everything worked out. The force just took me! I ran away with the circus and never looked back. I was with Kà until the pandemic. 2020.

AT: Did you choose to leave Cirque? How did you end up getting this job [at Houston Ballet]?

ZP: I got the call from one of my previous coworkers. Her name is Meghann. She has her own wig and makeup school/studio. She used to do wigs on Kà with me. We would chat, we were best friends. She had just moved out to Houston, a year before the pandemic happened, working with Houston Ballet doing wigs and trying to get her school off the ground here. She called me one day, and said, Hey, so I don’t know what your plans are. If you’re going back to Cirque. Before they start making offers, I want to let you know there’s a costume shop manager position open with the Ballet. You’d be working with Sandra Fox. She used to be the costume shop manager of Beatles Love. She also opened Kà with my previous boss, RuBen, and she used to work with Lisa Chapman on Beatles Love. Everyone knows everyone. Up to that point, I only met Sandra once, when I shadowed her show at my internship. So, we chatted, and I said, As a costume shop manager, I wanted to see what it’s like. To me, it was the next step. I’d been working as a technician. I worked in shoes, I worked in crafts. I was doing night wardrobe stuff. I was a full time technician. At Kà, I moved from a wardrobe technician to a costume technician and so I was in charge of checking all the harnesses that the artists wore and making sure they were good and the costumes were set and the Velcro was on. I did the last minute repairs during the show. I was having more responsibility. Getting the costume shop manager role at Houston Ballet would be the next step. As far as that went with design, I don’t think I was really focusing on design at that point. I was focusing on understanding the industry and seeing what it was like to work with designers and facilitate a team to create what they came in wanting to make, the impression they wanted to make on the audience. Sandra’s like, Sounds great to me. Let’s do it. I came here. I started with the Ballet in June of 2021. I was very sad that I didn’t have closure with Kà at Cirque. There’s usually a potluck. Because of pandemic, it was tough. Cirque closed during the pandemic. It was news to the crew and the audience. So much uncertainty. Cirque declared bankruptcy during the pandemic too. So there was that added layer of uncertainty with our industry. From going back to participate in Circus Couture a couple of months ago, I saw the team and my friends, and got little bits of closure. I was able to see the show again and be like, Yeah, this was a good chapter in my life and now it’s time to take the next step and work in ballet.

AT: The pandemic hit the performing arts industry the hardest. I feel like some people tried to do virtual things. I know Houston Ballet was doing things out in the parking lot and doing drive-ins. Was there a moment in the beginning of the pandemic where you thought, All of this is happening, and I’m trying to be a costume designer? You know, Broadway closed.

ZP: Yes, Broadway closed. There was a thought. I was searching a lot of things. What else is similar to Cirque? I applied to be a mechanic for Tesla cause that was understanding nuances of building things. What’s happening! But to me it seemed relatable. I also applied—there was a position at Disney at Lucasfilm and it was as an Asset Storage Manager. That was looking at all the inventory and making sure the costumes went to the shoots they needed to. I do that on a daily basis. Can you imagine if I did that for Star Wars? Did not get that position. To me costume design is such a fluid position that the more you know, the more you know. 

AT: It does sound like you can get a million jobs that fall under costume design. Which is sustainable.

ZP: I also applied for costume design positions at Warner Brothers, for small productions—just throwing (resumes) everywhere. That’s how I also ended up on space suits. To me, it was how can I combine my love for Star Wars and space. Wait, someone has to make the space suits. Right? What does that look like? I started looking up careers with space suit design. What kind of qualification or classes you have to take. I realize you have to be an aerospace technician to do all that stuff.

AT: At the [Houston] Ballet, are you designing costumes? Or managing the house?

ZP: Manning the team, working with designers. The only design input I get to have as a costume shop manager is repainting something, or really small-scale stuff. For one of the shows, some of the jewelry is missing, so I figure out what looks appropriate to the period. That whatever the intention of the design is is represented. 

AT: What do you think about the racialization of clothing but also the question of cultural appropriation in clothing? It is the biggest in fashion, across Halloween costumes or TikTok remakes or whatever? What is your take especially since you’re not a white designer and I would say ballet is still a white dominant field.

ZP: Sometimes I feel it and sometimes I don’t. That’s a great question. I’m still learning for myself. Especially being in such a diverse place as Houston where these conversations are happening and I’m able to have these conversations. In fashion, if we look at Star Wars for example, we talked about how Trisha Biggar used period Mongolian headdresses as inspiration for Amidala and some of the kimonos and things. All of it references a particular Asian influence. For me, as a costume designer, as a designer in understanding intention, the problematic thing is that there is no one of Asian descent in those films. There was something empowering about seeing something I recognize and I don’t want to not acknowledge that, but also acknowledge how problematic it is in that setting. For something as specific as royalty wear or that is culturally specific, don’t touch it unless you can talk to someone who has direct insight. Just leave it alone. At a market I was at, one of the stands had native American headdresses for sale. Are we still doing this? I was so confused by it because to me anything that is so specific like that, why? There’s no reason. 

AT: And those people who are buying them for a reason, would not be buying them from a market but from their own community.

ZP: Yes. There’s also some sort of practicality of the silhouette of some items when it comes to a robe. There’s a huge difference between a kimono and a robe that just has wide sleeves. I think understanding the terminology and how if you say something is one thing, it might not be because that word has cultural significance. So I think when fashion designers label something as a kimono, you could just call it a robe. There’s something I’m still discovering when it comes to designing off a silhouette or cause it looks cool. That is a fine line. It also comes down to intention. 

AT: Especially if you’re talking about other people, you can’t decide on motivation. I do and I don’t agree with it. I didn’t know that hoop earrings were from African cultures until a few years ago. It’s also that the education is ever-evolving in terms of even knowing what’s assimilated into fashion that’s coming from another cultural background. I have this little Instagram where I remake people I like.

ZP: What! Let me see! [AT shows ZP their own Instagram account.]

AT: You can flip through them. They each have doubles.

ZP: [Gasps] I love this movie! [Looking at Everything Everywhere post. Looks at a different post.] 

AT: That one is from a trans Black actor on In Treatment.

On that thing in particular, even on Instagram, when I am playing with images from Black celebrities, if there are African fabrics, I don’t take that on. My international Asian students are obsessed with dreads, and I ask them, Do you understand Black people are not able to wear dreads at work? We just got that passed in New York where they aren’t allowed to fire people for dreads. For me, until there’s true equity in terms of how people can wear their own cultural identity and not be racialized for it, it’s a small price to pay to not use it just because we like the look of it.

ZP: That’s the crazy thing, is when you do remember the people who actually want to wear it can’t. There was a conversation in the costume community about this character Fennec Shand on The Mandalorian. She’s a bounty hunter played by Ming-Na Wen. She is of Asian descent and I remember there was a big cosplayer who wanted to cosplay her costume. There were a couple of people who said, You should rethink this and leave it for people who are of Asian descent who want to cosplay this, and give them their space. I was thinking about it. I would never want to tell someone they couldn’t dress up in a costume of something they wanted to that is not, of course, culturally specific. Well, no. If Asian cosplayers are getting told that you are not white so you can’t be Padme. I would want to make space for them with an Asian bounty hunter to get the full representation but then again, is that almost saying, So here’s your Asian character. This is what you can do. It’s very tricky. It’s not getting easier.

AT: Let’s talk about queer stuff. Going back to childhood, did your playing with costuming come together with your understanding of your sexuality? When did you come out and how did it intersect with understanding your relationship to clothes?

ZP: All of these questions I’ve never even thought about before! I have always looked at fashion and what I wear as something universal and unrestrictive. I’ve always loved corsets. I’ve always had one. I tried on my mom’s heels at one point. She shared her makeup with me. I think the only thing that was restricted was super feminine items like skirts. I didn’t really know what the term gay meant until high school, and that’s when I felt there was a difference in society as someone who identified as such. In middle school, I would wear an Air Force shirt with my Arwen Evenstar necklace and not think anything of it. I was wearing whatever I wanted to. I remember doing the joke, Well, I’m gay! And everyone would laugh, not really feeling the weight of the words until high school. I think in high school was when I really started to find my self-expression and started to do things more one way or another. I remember dressing up with my friends and I’d wear a velvet hood and this skirt and we all went out to McDonalds and had a meal. But to me it was just what I wanted to wear at the time. Some people would be, You’re this and this and that and that. / Okay? And? I honestly know we’re not gonna be friends, so what is happening here, you know? But because it was rural, I think I always felt different and I was okay with that. In a school where you know everyone and everyone knows everything about you, I learned very quickly that you just gotta go with it. Me being pretty outgoing and just kind of having that support at home and from family to wear whatever I want to wear, to have Barbies when I grew up, kind of prepared me for high school to just be like, people are not gonna like me one way or another and that’s okay.

AT: Did your parents ever question your sexuality when you played with clothes? Was there a conversation that happened?

ZP: When I came out, it was a forced outing because I was assaulted in gym class by a guy. We were playing hockey, and he hit me a few times as he rounded (the gymnasium) and everyone saw it and it was weird. That’s when we had to sit down with my parents because the cops got involved. My parents asked me, Were you … gay? It forced us to have that conversation. This was freshman year of high school. I told them I was a bisexual because to me that was safe but clearly it was lying to myself, or coding, or whatever. Trying to protect my parents.

AT: How did they respond?

ZP: My mother cried. My dad was upset but I think as my mom has said it, she cried only because she was worried about the world I was moving into and how the world would respond to me being truly authentic, and that’s what made her scared. We’ve had great conversations during the pandemic about it, re-looking at my coming out experience because after all that happened, I remember they took me to my main doctor and we were in the parking lot. So we’re going to have a talk with him about your choice? / What are you talking about? / You know, about being gay and stuff. / So you took me to a doctor? In Degrassi there was a character who was assaulted by these guys and he had this huge coming out story. It was kind of tragic with those storylines—everything was sad—because it prepared me that I had to be hurt in order to be heard, and it almost made the situation, for all of the abuse and hurt I faced from other people, it was almost like, I had to go through this because the world is not ready for me. But it will be ready and I have to be able to step up to it so that way other people can get to that and not have to deal with that. That’s what Queer as Folk taught me. It has to happen and you’re gonna be okay. I’m like, Okay. It was weird to think about it, though, like that. My mom asked me earlier this year, How would you have wanted us to approach this topic? I didn’t know. The only person I knew was the doctor. I didn’t know if there was a community to go to. I didn’t have any of those resources. I said, I would have appreciated you taking me to a community center or something. / Well I didn’t know how to find it. / I can’t fault you for that because we’re approaching a territory where none of us knew where we were going. The doctor’s appointment was more or less, Let’s wait until you’re 18 to make a decision. I had some feelings myself but they faded away. I do not relate to this conversation. What is happening? This is strange.

AT: That sounds really scary to be taken to a doctor.

ZP: I hear the horror stories of being taken to a conversion therapist. That’s where I thought it was going. My dad was just happy to have some sort of frame of reference. They’ve always been supportive, but they’ve just been curious. They go to my drag shows. A couple of months ago we were out at lunch, he said, Excuse my naivete, but when men get married, do they have rings? And I said, Of course, Dad. It can be whatever you want it to be. / I don’t really know and I don’t want to sound like I’m being biased and I don’t know how to ask. / Thank you. I’m glad I can create a safe space for you so you can ask. That’s important. 

AT: But … the Internet is there? But I understand.

ZP: There’s resources. There’s all this stuff. We talk about safe spaces but I’m glad I can create one for my parents.

AT: I do think it’s different to be a queer designer, so what are your thoughts around – are you still doing freelance design? Are you designing for your own drag shows? What do you see going forward for queer design in particular?

ZP: I am designing stuff for DNVRMX which is a local circuit group that puts on events. I do find that my design aesthetic for them is pushing the boundaries of what circuit wear is like. The first looks I designed for them were Planet Pink and it was very much, Design for a planet. Oh, I love this. I created these four looks that are not one way or another. They’re very skimpy, of course. I wanted to add more of a storyline to it to create this ambience, instead of just having these guys on stage in a jockstrap dancing. If people are there for the experience and a lot of the friends I have in the circuit are there not just for the intimacy or sexuality of it all, but they’re there for the escapism. Coming from events in Vegas, you want to have an escape moment, let’s make it up. To me, that happens through clothing, too. This sense of other-worldly. A safe space where anything is possible and that’s what I want to create when I do these outfits. Some of the guys were like, this is the most clothing I’ve worn to a circuit event. / And? You’re still getting your little moment over here. For me, that’s fun because you can do anything. I want to shout out the circuit queens that come out and they are in beautiful drag. They bring their wings. There are people at these circuit events that you can tell come authentically. That’s who I’m trying to design for. The people who, like me, when they came into the circuit scene who were like, What’s happening? This is overtly sexual. Do I have to be sexual too? Is there something more for me here? But to a lot of people who are in the circuit scene, dressing up is 50% or 70%! They go for the music and they go to bring their moments. I design for the people who make moments. I’m making my friend a drag outfit right now. I’m making a custom harness for a friend who wanted something he couldn’t find. I do like creating moments for people. 

AT: If you’re going to Pride, what are you wearing or what is your fantasy Pride outfit?

ZP: It depends on the crowd size because I’ve worn my Padme dress to Pride once and walked with the Rebel Legion. I’ve worn big coats.

AT: Are you going to Houston’s Pride?

ZP: Of course.

AT: What do you imagine you’d wear to Houston’s? So, 100 degrees. 

ZP: This is me in Vegas. Is there a theme?

AT: I don’t know. 

ZP: I’m designing the looks for the DNVRMX that weekend, so I might wear something that references those. Friday night is gonna be a leather party with red. I might make a matching collar to go with the dancers. This year I want to explore wearing a skirt of some type. My first Pride ever was in San Francisco. It was the summer before I started college. I went and spent time with my cousin. Going to San Francisco Pride was such a game changer. It was a completely freeing experience. Scary but also freeing at the same time, and I created a fop character. 18th century wig. I had a white button up shirt on with lace shorts. It was a moment of authenticity. This coming up Pride I would want to find another moment of my authentic self. My buddy, one of my best friends from Las Vegas, who I still keep in touch with, his past wedding was themed, Dress as Your Authentic Self. It was so difficult. I wore my Jedi cosplay for it. I had just finished it, and I was proud of it. To me, my cosplays are everyday wear because they’re just clothes. Why can’t I wear them every day? Something exciting. Now that I know that it’s going to be warm, a chiffon moment. 

AT: This issue’s theme is SUSTAIN, so I was wondering if you had thoughts around sustainability in fashion and costume design, particularly using recycled materials and upcycling. What are your thoughts on that in general?

ZP: I’m totally for it. There are a couple of pieces in our next season at the [Houston] Ballet that we’re looking into going to places that sell recycled clothes, the Goodwill warehouses of the world. Now, with fast fashion being faster, especially with Wish and other places, everything happens so fast. I don’t think people realize that the clothes that are still around from the 60s and 70s are still around because the materials are so fantastic. Yeah, polyester is terrible. When you use something that has a cheap weave to it, it cheapens it. It falls apart faster. After three washes you want to throw it away. I’m a big supporter of thrifting or gently used clothing and making something out of it especially for costumes because you can buy a costume, which is great. I don’t knock anyone who does that. But there’s much more individuality, and more choice, that is to be found when it comes to thrifting for your own creative endeavor. For Ren Fair, my friends and I all went thrifting. That was the big thing. Should we buy something? No! Let’s thrift it. You can cut it apart. You can make it. One of my friends found this suede skirt and said, I don’t know what to do with it! Let me show you! We cut it up, distressed it a bit, and then we had a Ren Fair skirt. I encourage people to – if not for everyday wear – but for costume, cosplay, search the thrift stores. You can find good stuff. Something someone would be like, oh this choice I made once doesn’t work for me now, but that choice could totally work for someone else. I love it.